So it's 50 years.
(Around what year was it when the glass factory in your neighborhood disappeared?) Let's see. It's been a decade. I have been here for about 20 years now. (How long have you been working?) Quite long. (Your age?) How old do I look? Hahaha. I am 72. I daydream when I am at home. I don't care about the sales when I talk with everyone in the department store. Hahaha. (How long has it been since you got your skills?) I came in this world as an apprenticeship in 1949, so it's 50 years. (So you started working when you were 20?) 20, and it was really late, already 20. Back then, we didn't count in full years, so I was really 24. So I was behind in getting into this world. You should start when you are 15 or 16.

So it's really gracious when I get second orders after the customers liked the first.
Things like commemoration goods are on sale. They are pretty expensive when you use on your own. (Are those cold sake set?) Yes. (My friend gave a swill cup for "kiriko" and I use it often.) Oh, really!! (It feels really nice when I drink with that.) Yes, vessels are really important. So it's really gracious when I get second orders after the customers liked the first. (It can be used for anything?) Well, there isn't one single way to use it, when you use it on your own. (Most of them are sold for gifts?) Yes, a lot. Most of them are. Ours cannot be sold in department stores. The ones in department stores are that of the makers, and the price could be seen easily. (I see!) That's what is attractive about it. (How do the makers make them?) Machines. Technology is impressive. (Are there differences between machines and hand-made?) Yes. Only limited things could be done with machines. We finish up the work with diamonds of No.500 and No.600. The consumption of the tools are big when using machines, and to do it cheap we do it just once using the rough No.400. When we make deep ones, we do it rough first and then really minute. Then end gets really deep when the machines do it rough. We are dealing with crystals, so the shining is really importantc that is the difference, I think.

I tell the customers to make orders about three weeks beforehand.
(How many kind of glasses are there?) Crystals, semi-crystalsc (Semi-crystals?) Yes. Besides that, there are about 3 different kinds that we use. There are about 5 different types in one kind of crystal, like 7, 10, 13, 20, 25. (What do those numbers represent?) The content. (What is the price difference between a crystal and a soda glass?) Just the ingredients of the crystal are three times that of soda glass. So when you buy many of themc (Is that hard work?) Yes, so I tell the customers to make orders about three weeks beforehand. (Do crystals cost much labor?) No, crystals are rather cheap, because there is no step of polishing them. To do one, we wash and melt it with acid. It costs about 500en, but it costs about 1500en when we wash it by hand. Soda glass cannot be pickled with acid. (But crystals are okay?) Yes. (Is Mr.Tanabe in a straight line with crystals?) No. For a family celebrations, people want ones that cost 3000en, 2000en. (Do you choose ingredients according to their price?) Yes, I suppose so. When it comes to crystals, they cost normally at least 20000, 30000en. They are nice, but a bit expensive. (Isn't it strange that people give good ones to the others rather than using them by themselves?) Everybody say that.

It shines magnificently, right?
When you hit a crystal with a light, it shines magnificently, right? (Yes, really! It shines by just holding and turning it in my hand!) But, when it comes to using it, you know. (Heavy?) It's heavy. When the center gets dirty, it'll be hard to wash it. (What about a brush?) It doesn't get in. (Do you make it for an ornament?) No, no. (Do you want it to be used?) Well, yes, yes, yes. You can use this as an ornament and as an interior too. (Would it be better to use a device to make the light hit the crystal?) Don't your feelings get bright when you glare at this? No need to use such a thing.

My aunt introduced me to this job.
(What was the reason for starting your work at the age of 24?) Well, my aunt introduced me to this job. My boss didn't have children. He adopted my aunt's children. And the kid is still in the fourth grade of elementary school. Well I went in at that time, and the boss told me to stay by him until the son learns the job, in spite I wanted to work independently. So I waited and I think he graduated old-style middle school. (So you waited for a long time.) That is right. (Is the boss's adopted son working right now?) No, he is dead and the boss stopped his business. And the trace of that factory lies over there, that cafe. His wife works there. Women are strong, you know. And that cafe is doing good, with many customers.

When we make money, we just go drink.
The workers back then had good skills, therefore they made a lot of money too. (But they just use the advance payment up?) Yes, that's right. I did all the payment and one time, I went next door to get the bill, but he said "I paid yesterday already." People back then were really random. When it gets dark in the afternoon, we just gather around and play cards. Yes. When we make money, we just go drink. (Good old days?) Yes, I guess so. We were young those days, we weren't short of hands and hired 5 or 6 young kids. So my master earned a lot. It was possible to calculate on our own. When we do work of that ratio, we make 1000en a day, right? So we work 25 days, and get only 2 days off, which were the 1st and 15th.. (That was in the Showa Period?) It was around the year 1949. I earned about 3000en a month, and I was fed too. And then 4, 5 years have passed and I earned about 5000en. (Is that a moderate income?) It's good.

So a beer that was stuck to an ice got really cold.
(Were you in Kameido during the war?) I was in Oojima. A metropolitan streetcar ran there. It was a port city. So when it rains, and when the typhoon comes, the electric current cut off, and I just get excited and go out. (Go out?) Yes, yes, yes. There was a butcher called "Sato", and I got a stomachache. I go there every night, right? It gets late after sending workers to work and making arrangements. Back then we used ice instead of refrigerators, right? So a beer that was stuck to an ice got really cold. So I got a stomachache. (So those were the days when you didn't keep earnings overnight?) Yes. (Wonderful!) And it still goes on. The first of the month is a boozer party. I am also a staff for the association, right? There are 12 members in total including the president and others. We held the parties in each family's house. And our wives just complained and complained! If there aren't two rooms next to each other, 12 of us wouldn't fit. The food is not gorgeous, but instead they use plates that are like the ones in restaurants.

When I train the young ones, my own sale profit gets cut in half.
(What are your future plans?) It's difficult these days. (Difficult?) Yes. I mean, you can get Chinese and Japanese products really cheap these days, right? If you just take one and see it from distance, you cannot tell the difference. (Can the professional tell the difference?) Yes. (Are craftsmen needed?) Well, they are needed. Training is something everyone can do easily, but when it comes to mastering it, it takes time. I was training this youngster for three years because I though he would work well, but then he just quitted. Other people's work look better than their own, I guess. They get cajoled into other works that have better salaries, and they just change their mind to that one. Well, I know it's not that easy. So now, when I train the young ones, my own sale profit gets cut in half by teaching and working, you know. When they come learn for 3 years, live in an apartment, and quit after 3 years, I just have to pay out of my pocket. So when I went in, I stayed with 3, 5, 10 people. From that I saw and learned many things. I quitted teaching the young ones because they just kept on quitting even if I trained them man to man. But now, it's impossible to get a training saying 40 hours a week as the deal. Saying they want to get paid on Sundays and holidays, and they need to make their insurance too.

We are the highest, in the 60's.
(Have the Kiriko craftsmen aged?) Yes. We are the highest, in the 60's. And after us are the successors, the second generation. They will succeed us. Fortunately, there has been still about 80 companies left. (In Japan?) No, in Tokyo. The one in Osaka is gone now, and Tokyo is left only. (I though it would be less!) No, no, more. There are more than 50 kinds of legendary craftwork that Tokyo authorizes, and we all suggest to make something unique for each of the memorial gifts that are send along with the Tokyo mayor's thank-you letter and testimonials. In business worlds, where the number of the craftsmen is small, it is possible to make products of the same quality. But in business world for kiriko workers, it is too much to take in the order for one, and it is just not possible to take them in on your own. (You get them in the business world then?) Yes, in our business world. (Do you make same things out of one selected design?) Yes, but there is a habit, you know. It is normally hand-made, so that doesn't really matter though. But if there is a clear difference, you know what I mean? There are both strong points and weak points in the association, so we ask him to do this in a certain way, and him in the other, and so on. (What are Mr.Tanabe's strong points?) No, I haven't got one. I just do everything. But what is advantageous is that when I think of making a new product, I go to the department store and watch the reaction of the customers. Like "OK, this will do." When the customers gather around, I buy and take home the ingredients and produce, then everything gets sold out. When I make the products individually, I have to change the tools, and it just costs the labor. But besides the case when the craftsmen gather and get the orders, everybody are normally making different things individually in spite of the high expense, right?