This product, you can make if you tried. You can make it if you want, but it's just a hobby. The reason why I worked so hard on a hobby, is because pictures as cuts, scenes can't be curved, it's not something to be curved for me. Therefore, I go all over Japan visiting artisan exhibitions, and my neighbors have ukiyo-e prints. I got hints from them and wondered if I couldn't curve it, and that's how it began. It can't be done so quickly at once. Every time I make a product, about 12 or 13, or depending on the case, I've wasted much. Fuji of the Mt.Fuji disappears, and if I make it, I want an ocean, then a ship. It was a year and a half ago when it was, in this way, at last finished. This, my pupil is curving right now. Please praise him! Right now, I can't curve this. My eyes won't obey me. (What about yours?) This is the pitcher. Pitchers are something to be shown, right? So just curving it, isn't enough. And there is a curving position. Just curving blindly isn't good at all. So, if there were such glass as this, depending on the pattern, making it a more beautiful object. So, there is a certain point as to where to curve, it can't be too low or high. It's like that.
(Do the patterns have names?) No, they don't. Because new patterns are curved so often, naming every one of them is endless, so we don't name them. (Is there a pattern that's traditional?) In short, traditional patterns are already established. For example, this is "Kagome," a pattern of a basket with bamboo knitted diagonally, and chrysanthemum, spider web. I make all sorts of things. So, where to introduce this patterns in the design. For example, this, I made good use of Kagome only. Everyone stops here, when they consider Kagome, here. But, just showing a little bit makes a new pattern. Besides, small colors are going to be put in here, and this time, that becomes a pattern. (How do you get the colors?) We go and buy colored glass. (Is the surface colored?) Yes, yes, it's overcoated. That's why these colors are possible. (Crystal glass?) How expensive are crystal glasses! This pitcher, I sell it for 3000 yen. Our colleague sells it for 4500 yen. And to be honest, even though we sell it for 3000 yen, the glass costs 1000 yen. Besides, since we can't sell it naked, a dressing box goes with it. It doesn't make sense! If one goes to Kagoshima, they charge 11thousands or 12thousands yen. (Having a wholesale store in between?)Yes. There are a lot of complaints. So, I have shown you now. This isn't curved this way anywhere else. Because our customers buy only cheap ones, only from us. Some buy these products and look for it somewher else. Then, they say,"I've looked everywher, but can't find it." So, from the beginning, I tell them that the new patterns I made aren't in other shops, but they don't believe me.
(Are you the only cut-glass artisan?) No, there are fifty or so, now. I am their consultant. (All over Japan?) No, not all over Japan, only Tokyo. In the past, the process manufacturer were all gathered in the Honjo-Sumida ward. After the war, they all moved to Koto district. I became a pupil in Showa 7 and have an old man like me doing the job now. They all quit at 55 or 60. (How old is your pupil?) Fifty something. He can't do anything. That's why he's on mind. (Masters are always harsh!) But I brought him up. There is a famous cut designer, he is mentioned a lot, as traditional artisan. He used to be my pupil. I went to Indonesia to teach this job. Oh England and here and there, I have so many pupils that I can't even count them. Now, products come in from China. Those are our teachings. I even went to Taipei. (Where else?) Indonesia. For 6 months. Therefore, I've experienced so much. There isn't anything I don't do.
(Are the colors red and blue?) Because these are blown at town factories, blowing the red ones for example, depending on the person, it gets lighter or darker, since it's done with human hands. (Does the white come out as the curving goes on?) There is white inside, you see. Therefore, the factories that make these have to have some technology. So, the rest is up to your own design. But, job like this is easy. (What do you mean it's easy?) The reason why this is easy is, the curving machine is spinning constantly, right? So, this is just constant spinning, as you can see. But when the curving machine is turning, to get this roundness, we must move the product and our hands, and make it come out round. Everyone wants to do it really, but not all of them can do it because they don't have the technology. Sometimes, an article is done. (Is it hard to make the curve?) Since the curving machine is turning, not only get this roundness, but also this pitch black. Until you curve it, you know? That's where the difference of technology becomes clear. And this is being curved now. (It's still in process?) Yes, it still is. Unless we show this, the customers think that we use machines or something. (Make a pattern by leaving the color?) The color is the first priority, be there the color and then pattern fits to it and a good product. But, it isn't easily done. That's why the price of the material is expensive!
(Where do you sell?) In Japanese Traditional Crafts exhibitions at department stores all over Japan. The sales went really well last year. (Do you sell there?) Yes, I sell personally. Since the title is that, customers can come and pruchase. But, it's hard to gather customers if the title was "Artisans of Edo." Since we are in recession, ha ha ha. Therefore, people from this industry break their backs trying to make a product or a pattern that's a little different and unique. Everyone is having a headache over it, but since customers today are extravagant, they all want something original that can't be purchased anywhere else, even if it's a little expensive. But it's not something that sells everyday. Edo facets, Satsuma facets are, if for general use, a little extravagant, right? They don't have to use something that's this expensive. But some people really like it. These people, as I said before, demand something with a pattern of their own that they can't find anywhere else. That's normal. In this recession, a glass for 2or 1million yen, uh, just thinking of it, selling it myself, I think why people would buy in this recession. (Laughing) I think that way when I'm the one selling it. So, my shop sell it cheaper. But customers who have looked around some other shops say, "Not at all! It's different from Mr.Okubo's." "There is no shine." So I have that much confidence in this job. Also before, a lady comes in suddenly and says, "I have bought your product 10 years ago, and I want it again. I want to make it a gift for my son." She wanted a lot. 120 reds, 120 blues. I accepted, but I regretted that I accepted too much. Also, I would have trouble if I didn't have the money, so I went to say give me the money for the glass. It was a huge mansion. The lady comes out and I say," May I come in from the kitchen?" but she says, "No, please come in from the entrance." I went in from the entrance and I got a check for paritial payment. I got the rest later. This was a lady in Kamakura, presents aren't rare. This one is for a 88 year old lady for her eighty-eighth
birthday celebration.
(Is it fun to think of a new pattern?) Yes, a pattern is something that just comes to mind suddenly, that even though when I was young, I sat at my desk, thought of many things, and tried to write with a pencil, no ideas came to mind. For a new pattern, you have to have the product before your eyes. Now, it doesn't work so much. Then, a pattern comes to mind all of a sudden. An old senior of ours used to say "You go to the front, you must like women, too." There were lots of women in Japanese clothing. Those times. There are some good patterns in the Japanese clothing. He told us, "If you find a pattern that's good, even just a part of it is fine, keep it in your head." Put something in that pattern, for example, make it come out on the surface. So, don't just walk and do nothing, he says. Artisans at those times are said to steal patterns. In short, if you think someting is good, keep it in mind, even if you don't produce it immediately. That's it. Otherwise, you can't learn.
(Can you name a product as you please?) Yes, that's right. But, I, be it Mt.Fuji or anything else, I only curve it, right? I can't really name it. So I often play, putting coconuts on the sand in a scene of Hawaii, and then making the Southern Cross and the sea. Then, a pupil of mine, when he can float a ship there, imitating me, he floats a sailboat. A sailing boat, a Japnese painting, that is. He can curve yatch, too. He should float those, but he floats a sailing boat. (Laughing) So I laughed.
(When was facet first used in Japan?) It existed aroung TAISHO, or MEIJI, but then, it was lamps, and it was produced with hand-spin and foot-spin. But glass existed from the time of the Silk Roak. ¡£¡ÊGIYAMAN¡©¡ËYes, yes, yes. But SATSUMA facet, made by the common people, was considered by the SHIMAZU-HAN. One by one, they are treasures. It was produced by imitation of foreign products, but it's surprising that they did that. Customers ask me, "Which of Edo facet and Satsuma facet is older?", but I don't know. As a result of someone bright researching for a year and a half, it's said that Edo artisans went to teach Satsuma. Since Satsuma is a clan, the finance are recorded, to make myself clear. You might think that Satsuma facet is older, but in reality, Edo's is older. Edo's, not in a clan, was produced by the common people.
Now, there aren't anyone who would blow this product (glass). No one makes it in the factory. (Staring) This is well done! So, I'm thinking of curving it myself next time. But, my eyes are gone up, I should have curved it 10 years ago and kept it. (You can't go further than the plan?) Yes. The man blowing this product, for preservation, made ten. And since he treated me like his son, he gave me one saying, "I'll give you one, too, as my remembrance."
You took a picture of it? Then, let me put it away. This is, when I was young, (Your treasure?) Yes. A high-quality job like this, I can't do anymore. So neat, like it was done with a machine. But, artisans now, they are indulgent! For example, you buy it in a set, right? Colored produts. But, colored glass are done in a town factories, you see. Manufacturers don't because of the cost. If they did, they would do it well from the price. Then, by ones or twos, they would be especially high-priced. There is only one of these among the town factories. So, customers purchase these by sets. There would be, then, light-colored and dark-colored ones, too. Facets, well done and half done. The customers, then, question, "The pattern here is a little different." "Well, since we do these by hand, it doesn't go so acurate like it's done with a machine." If told so, the customers can't say anything. "Oh, since it's hand-made. That's good in a way." They are deceived. If you asked me, it's definitely a lie. Really. This is said to be hand-made, look at this! They ask if there is a fault in this! This can be done! It's definitely a way of escaping. Now, they all fool the customers with talk! It's not right, the way I see it! It's such a slovenly!
(Are there masters who would break it down if his pupil makes something that he didn't like?) Now, no. But in the past, there were. My senior was in charge of a great facet. He put confidence in me and let me cut it. We deliver it to a fault finding place. It was a small wholesale store. But they only deal with high-quality products. They say, "Let's see," and they look at it, and we get the bill there. But, with a hammer, it is destryed before oure eyes, because they don't like the products we made. (Who doesn't?) The master! Such vexation!! With so much vexation, everyone is like, "God damn it, I am gonna make something good." That's the way it is. Now, there is no one like that! Ha, ha, ha. Old artisans are that way. Their spirit didn't mind about money. So that high-quality products were made. Our seniors say, "How many of yours were broken down? When it was crashed before my eyes, I was miserable." Now, one would think, "Damn! I'm never going to make anymore," right? A man of our age would say, "All right, I'm gonna make something good that he is gonna put his head down." He will work with fervor. That how the artisans of the old times were. But now, the new ones only try to reason. (How old were you when your product was destroyed?) Well, I was seventeen or eighteen.
(In workshop) We all use old-styled tools. The reason why we started using diamond board is, there was a time when the cut swayed so much, we couldn't help it. When we use the diamond board, we could do it quick. Inferior sharpening, medium, and small, and with a whetstone. With a diamond board, there are two or three less steps. Then next, the polishing, usually called acid polishing, the glass is burned after it's melted with a chemical. That's why delicate cuts all melt. So, I, because it's hand-polished, it's left as it was. After we do it with old-styled tools, the patterns come in.
Mr.Ookubo, please don't trick us with your age.
(Master, you are vigorous even if your waist hurts!) Ha ha ha, it does hurt. If I told the processing store, they wold probably laugh, saying, "You still stick to the old ways." However, the reporters like the fact that I do it the old-fashioned way. In the good old days, we did it this way, like that. Now, there's too much logic, in the conversation. Anyways, I am old and I have done this since Meiji 7, right? Since I know the old stories and the how to process, I tend to be the target. That's way everyone comes to see the TBS report. Then, I thoughtlessly faked my age, ha ha ha. (How much?) Like ten years younger. Everyone listened to it. They all say, "Mr. Ookubo, you lied about your age," so I answer, "Yes, I said it carelessly." Afterwards, NHK came to me and told me, "Mr. Ookubo, please don't lie about your age." Since it was on national TV network, I was told so in the country, too. Oh, was I embarrased. But they didn't have to put my face on air, such an old face. And such old tools, right? Of course if you asked me, older the tools, the better the curving.
(What about the young people now?) Yes, they say a lot. They are adults only at talking. (There are young artisans, too?) Yes, and they do a fine job. But, now, once or twice a year, they introduce a new pattern for New Pattern Sample Exhibition in Sangyo Industry Hall. In this case, department stores and such are all invited and they take a look. I see some really great curvings. I am impressed. However, even though we should put such feelings in the products that we usually sell, there is a big gap there. This work once a year and the products sold at their own place are totally different, ha ha ha. So, they should put more work into the usual products, and make better ones. There are people who really like Edo facets. And the high-priced ones. One makes it and prices it himself. But, ten people all don't have the same ability. For example, one can make a product in half a day, but an another makes it in just three or four hours. This is because of difference in abililty. And an another question is if the finished product is alive or dead. As they san,"When ten people gather, there are ten different color of feelings," there are many different kinds of people. Our products, similar to those of painters, represent our characteristics. But unfortunately, no one in our union, can judge that and evaluate it. I have said as I wished, but now since I don't want to be hated, I keep quiet and work alone. So the one thing I can say is, the young ones now only try to reason, ha ha ha. The reasoning isn't what's important, it's the quality of the job. Everyone knows that without being told, but in a generation like this, you know, where profit comes before doing a good job. They rapidly sell any foolish product. The department stores welcomes you if the results are good. Before it was a culture event, but it isn't anymore.
