Well, we are craftsmen who make things basically.
Well, we are craftsmen who make things basically. (What do you make?) Fans. (Do you make the ribs too?) We buy in the ribs from Shiga-ken because that is the place of production. We stock the papers from Kyoto and also from my place. (Can I see the fan you are working on?) I will be sticking this at my place. (Can I see other products?) This was made in Kyoto, so it is a total buy in product. (So there are products that come finished?) Yes. The process is to make the ground paper first, then fold it, and put ribs on them to be finished. The ribs and the papers are stocks on hand from the outside. Besides that, if I want to order a picture like this, there is a specialized person for that, so I make the orders to him. (About how many fan craftsmen are there in Tokyo today?) Well, let's see. I didn't have any close relationship. There are about 4, 5 people, but I am not sure whether they are really working or not. (You have no close relationship at all?) None. It would be nice if there was some sort of exchange of information.

And holding fans have no restrictions in its size or anything
(Do you start selling the fan from the spring?) I start selling them from around May. (But isn't that something often bought in the New Years?) Well, it could used as an ornament in the New Years too. (Are there difference in the making depending on the utility?) Yes, there is a congratulations fan, used in time of celebration. That has a certain number of the ribs. And holding fans have no restrictions in its size or anything, even though there is a standard. If it's too big, we'll make it small, and if it's small, we'll make it bigger. If I feel that it would better with one more rib, then I would make it bigger. Ones used in Kabuki and Noh are already restricted.

We have been working from the New Year's Day.
(Which generation are you?) I am the second. (What was the motive to become a fan maker?) Well, it was just that my parents were doing this job, so I had no other ways but to succeed it. (So you were the son of a craftsman who just learned things naturally?) Ever since I was a kid, I watched my parents everyday from morning to late at night. There was a tremendous amount of hard times there. Maybe it's not worth trying so hard. I wish there is a better a job. I have had some experiences as a business man for a few years, but I had troubles with getting along with people and the time management. (What was hard when you were a kid?) Well, let's see. First of all, I was restrained until I finish up one work. Especially, we've had ones we needed to make in haste. We have been working from the New Year's Day. The end and the beginning of a year were none of our business, and we just had to get things done on time. We finish the works somehow and purveyed them. But the income was not really worth our amount of work since this is a time-consuming job. So I don't have so much memories of hanging and playing around with my parents. (Was your father short-tempered when he was busy working?) That happened sometimes. These works were private, and all the family members were related to the job in some ways. Like asking one to send the finished work, and make one go pick something up, and stuff like that. I went back and forth Asakusa since I was in 5th grade. I delivered the finished product, and I went to pick up the groundwork when it was ready. 100 sheets of Japanese papers are quite heavy, you know. I had to take that inside the bus and the train. And the people looked at me with their disturbed looks as the papers were taking a lot of space. It's over there. It's shaped like this. Hundred of these were pretty heavy to carry. It was difficult to handle this within my arms, because it was a thing of a precious value, and I just couldn't lay it on the floor. I tried to wrap it with a cloth to take it home. That was one of the things I hated. (Do you still make your family participate in working?) No, I just work alone these days. Well, I ask them to help me if I am really busy. (Do you make the products alone?) I do that alone. I worked as a business man, but the boss kept on telling me, "do this, do that" but I resisted, "Shut up! Do it yourself!" I hated that.. (In how many years did you quit?) I retired in two years. I found out that what is born of a cat will catch mice. I can only be the cat. (Was your father still working when you came back?) He was, he was. He was still active and was working well.

This looks like one sheet, but it really is three sheets together.
(What is the most difficult part in making a fan?) Well, of course the groundwork must be made firmly, or else it would be a big effect until the end. (What is the groundwork?) These ground papers. This looks like one sheet, but it really is three sheets together. This is the back, and this is the front. In between is the core paper. If it were only two sheets, then there would be no sheet to peel off when it is papered together. There would be no space to go inside the ribs. That is why we pile one more sheet on top. With three sheets, the half of the core paper tears to the front paper and the other half tears to the back paper. That is how the Japanese papers are, despite how thin they are. (Do they peel off?) They tear in half. (They tear the paper, which was formerly only one sheet?) It can't be torn with only one sheet. But it tears by gluing and sticking several sheets together. (So the core paper in between is torn?) The core paper gets torn. But the number of sheets must be in odd numbers, like three or five. This has three sheets. Can try to cripple them? You see it is torn in half, right? Here, like this. The rib gets through here in between.

You repeat the mistakes over and over, and then learn the one right thing.
Holding fans have papers only used for them, like dancing fans have their own thick papers for dancing fans. So we change the thickness of the papers depending on the utility. Holding fans are opened and closed frequently, so the papers used are pretty tough. Japanese papers are tough because of the fibers intertwined inside, right? But the holding fans open and close very often, so we increase the strength with its thickness. And depending on the thickness, I have to adjust the amount of glue on the process of sticking three sheets together. The papers get too hard if I stick too much glue on them. If the glue is too less, then they tear easily. I have to adjust the amount of glue, whether it's thick or thin, depending on the change of seasons. (So it needs a lot of experience in order to get used to it?) Well, you repeat the mistakes over and over, and then learn the one right thing. (Did you learn that from your father?) Yes, he was my master. The paper is in a state like this in the beginning. Then I stick them together. They are then cut, glued, hanged and dried for about a week. But just dried ones are in a state like this. Stones are placed on top of them to make them totally flat, and leave it like that for about a week. (They are not dried forcefully?) They are dried totally naturally. Until they are cleanly dried. (Did people use to that in the early days too?) We do them with the same thickness of the glue, but it would be different if it were thicker. (Does that differ depending on the seasons?) We put the heaters on in the winter season, so we can tell the time about when they get dried. In the rainy season, we need an extra week to dry the papers, because they don't get dried in a week. We should prepare a special heating room and dry them there. Winter is the season in which we can work well.

I went out to Asakusa to help the work since I was in fifth grade.
If I take the count from that point on, it will be 40 years. (How long has it been since you have started working?) I began working seriously in 1968, so 31 years. I went out to Asakusa to help the work since I was in fifth grade. If I take the count from that point on, it will be 40 years. But helping my parents those days were just a part of preparation. (Was that hard?) It was hard, as I had to be patient just like in the TV drama. All my friends were out playing when I had to help the work, like delivering things to town. (Did you used to work here those days?) It has been always here. (What about your siblings?) I was the only one who succeeded. (What happened to the other ones?) They were here, but they were girls and are already married. (How do you get on with the work?) People say that on the first day, the groundwork and ground gluing are done, and I just do 100, 150 of those. Then on the next day, I fold the papers that are dried enough, and that's it. I put on the ribs the next day, and finish up on the day after that. So it would take four to five days if going smoothly. That is the process.

The sheets could not be folded with our fingers, so they had to be stepped upon.
We take the measures by half an inch. The smallest fan would be the mame-ogi and its size I is from one inch, one inch and a half, two inches, two and half inches, and three inches. Above that would be the ocha-ogi, with five inches. The mochi-ogi, the holding fan is five inches and a half. One with six inches is stuck right here during the wedding. Fans of that kind would be six and six and a half inches. Onna-mochi, the fans for women would be six and a half inches. Otoko-mochi, fans for men, would be seven and half inches. In between is 7 inches, and that is a fan used both for men and women. (Fans for women got larger recently?) There is no change in the size. There are cloth fans from Kyoto, made of cotton or silk, right? Those have size of about seven inches. This is called koza-ogi, used by comic storytellers, and it has eight inches. Holding fans have size as far as eight inches. From that size on are mai-igi, the dancer's fans, used for dancing. Ones for kids have size from eight and a half inches, nine inches, and the standard is nine and a half inches. Big people hold fans of size of about a foot. Above that is a foot and an inch. Fans for ornaments are a foot and three inches. (Is that pretty big?) Yes, there are big ones. There was a fan of about two meters in the Star Festival back then. It filled the whole room when it was opened. The sheets could not be folded with our fingers, so they had to be stepped upon. One whole bamboo was used and carved to make a rib. (Are there any orders like that?) No, not anymore.

If I slip out 1mm in the beginning, there is a 5mm gap in the end.
(Who makes the mold for folding the sheets?) I made it myself. To fold this, I use this mold. For this, I use this. These here are used for big ones. (What is the mold made out of?) It is made out of Japanese paper. I spread glue on top of it to make it tough and hard. (As he folds) During the training period when I wasn't used to the work, I couldn't fold the sheets properly, like the mold sliding earlier, or the sheets getting inadequate or the mold sliding above the sheet. This training period lasted for three years. Like I showed you minutes earlier, there are many kinds. So I have to fold this at a stretch, because I lose the power if I take a breath in between. If that happens, just that part sticks out or draws in. You need balanced force to fold it. I have no problem now because I got used to it, but if it slips out even a little like this, it gets uneven, right? They need to be folded flatly really. If I slip out 1mm in the beginning, there is a 5mm gap in the end. So if I had 100 of these, it's not easy to make all of them the same. In addition to that, each mold has its own characteristic, and you have to take hold of that to make one. There are molds in where the sheets slide up automatically, and ones that go down. (Do you remake the molds?) Of course I do.

But that wholesale store is gone now.
(Do you have any relationships with the celebrities?) Before, there was a place called Itoh-ya. It was a shop and also a wholesale store. All the orders went there. And those orders came to places like us. So I just couldn't determine this was whose and this was that, but I think I've had pretty much of those in the past. But that wholesale store is gone now. They should have worked themselves as the regular business, but they laid their hands on something else, and they began to cripple from there.