120 or 130 years ago:

It began from my great grand father's generation. Around in the middle to the end of Meiji era, so 120 or 130 years ago. (Which generation are you?) My father is the third and I am the fourth one. The first generation was called the SHIN-EMON, didn't even have a name of the store or anything like that, we putted up the name during the second generation. The second generation's name is Eikichi, third generation, my father, Eiichi. (Mr.Katsumi, your name doesn't include Ei at the beginning of your name?) No. I guess my generation wasn't like theirs. ( Fifth generation？) Still in elementary school. (How old?) I'm 38. (How many years have you been doing this job?) 12 years. Graduated school and was a company employee for a while. ( Why did you quit the company？)　Well, there was some reasons and I thought it over. (Was your father delighted?) Not really because it's not a developing job. It's not going to grow in the future. Plus, even when I was a company employee, I spent more time making things. So, that like triggered it, and I thought this job was suitable for me. (What did you think of it before?) Of course I thought of it as a job with no future. I was expecting my father to be the last generation. I went to high school and college preparing to be company employee. I was helping my father like with shopping for woods, but I just did it as a part time job, not as a permanent job. So, I worked as a company employee for 3 years, thought about it and asked if I can work for my father. (How do you like it?) Well… (Future?) No, I don't think there is no future, probably work hard and try to keep the present condition. After all, domestic materials, woods are all getting cut down decreasing in numbers. It's getting harder and harder to obtain them materials. And using similar imported materials would not make fair products. It seems like to get hold of the materials will be getting even harder. (So, since you only use domestic materials, does that make your OKE (pail) high quality?) Yeah, I guess. It is used as a daily used tool but I think compared to the OKE at the market, it is made a bit exclusively. It's not made as fine arts, but as a industrial arts and among the tools, it is sort of high class. (Is the demand lessening?) Yes, that is why it's so hard to continue this business going. Especially that there is daily stores and discount stores where they make large amount of them and selling them. That is possibly the reason why the demand is unremarkable. Umm… also, it is no longer used in every family, although, it is getting to be a unique tool amongst the tool lovers.

Will make any OKE when requested:

(Specialty in making this kind of OKE from the beginning?) The very beginning was OHITSU, a steamed rice container and that was the only thing I made. Back then, there were many people who made OKE and there was OKE store for only OHITSU, OKE store only for TARU (barrel), and OKE store only for bathtubs. Back then there was that much demands, but now, the main is the OHITSU and makes any kind of OKE when requested. (Is OHITSU the main?) Yes, in the out of all the different types of OKEs, OHITSU with a lid is the most complex to make. If you can make this, you can pretty much make any OKE. If you say you are the specialist for OHITSU, that would mean you are good and an expert at it.

If used with care, it can be used for as long as 30 to 40 years:

(Where are the OKEs used at?) Usually 70 % are used at homes. Other 30 % are used at restaurants, emperor's ceremony or religious ceremony. (Are they special ordered?) Yes, they request something like" we are using this so make the same one" or " make this". OKE used in the bathroom and OHITSU are mostly for home use. 60% to 70% are home use. ( Even if there are more people who uses electric rice cooker?) Yes there are more. Especially these 7, 8 years, the number of people who wants to use OHITSU is increasing. After all there are increases in the number of people who care about the rice's brand. That brings the people to be particular about type of rice cooker, the water and such. As a conclusion they think it has to be cooked by using charcoal fire and finish up the rice in the OHITSU so they can understand the taste of good rice. (Is electric rice cooker bad?) You can keep it heated so you can eat the rice warm, but the tastes go bad faster. I can say more people are realizing that. (How about the price?) This is about $200. (Are the rice cooker cheaper?) Oh, yes. But if you use properly, it can be used for 30 to 40 years. (How many cup of rice can be cooked in this?) This is about four cups. Use for 2 to 3 people. (What is OHITSU's merit?) Rice is good even when it's cold. (Doesn't the rice get dump?) … well, the moisture is adjusted by OHITSU. (What is it made out of?) HONZAWARA, natural trees in a cypress group that is older than 300 years. At my place that is the only thing we use to make OKE. (Is that the only material used to make OKE?) Yes (Only domestic?) The ones we use at my place are domestic, but as I said before, the trees are all getting cut down, decreasing in numbers, so it is becoming difficult to obtain them. And so, there are some companies that uses similar imported tree or a forestation, although the quality is completely different. (Happy when sold, but pain to get the materials to make a new one?) That is why even if the Japan's economy is on a roll and receives many orders, there is only a fixed amount I can make per year, so it doesn't help me much. Right now, on the other hand, because I can make so many in a year, it isn't that hard even the economy is somber. (Are there numbers of people who takes in Japanese fashioned items into a western house?) Of course there is. Even if the bath tub is plastic, they use wooden hand OKE.

The tub is the only thing that is made of stainless steel. (Ha ha):

(What do you call this?) TAGA (Rim of OKE made out of bamboo )(Is there less of TAGA now?) Umm- it's not ordinary, but there are some customers that favors bamboo TAGA. Customers who want to have the sensation of aged; traditional look orders bamboo TAGA to be used. (Can you not use copper for barrel to make pickles because it will get rusty?) That is true because it has salt in it. Pickle barrel has to be made out of bamboo. (I bet the pickles will be delicious!) Yeah- people who make them say so. Because the air comes in and out between the grain, releasing extra salt. (Do you use OKE at home?) Yes, I do. (How about the bathtub?) Oh- bathtub is the only thing that is made of stainless steel. (Ha ha) Even bathtub being wood is a bit too much… (Are the wood bathtubs made by different craftsman?) Now days we make it too, but bathtubs are the largest items we make at our store. (Do you consider bathtubs as OKE?) Yes, the shape is called the KAKUMARU, which is similar to an oval shape. It used to have a copper kettle indented place on the side called KAMAKUCHI where the fire is made to heat the water inside the bathtub. (Next door neighbor had a wood box bathtub instead of an OKE.) Box, meaning square? Those are a bit high class. As a bathtub, square ones are made better. For family use, those KAKUMARU, oval shape bathtubs are common. (How about the height?) Lets see-, about 76cm. For short people, it is hard for them to stride over into the bathtub. So, they used a stool.

I want to make new items that will match the modern lifestyle:

( Have you started on wine coolers recently?) Yes, from 5 to 6 years ago. (Does it sell?) Yeah, customers buy it for fun. Plus, ice doesn't melt as fast and the bottle doesn't sweat as much. (Are you going to keep making new items?) Well, probably I'll make traditional items and 10 to 20%, I'll make more new items. I want to add new items that will match our modern life style, but I also don't want to lose the traditional items that are passed down to this day because they have special meanings. (How about this fish bowl?) It was made like 10 years ago. (Water doesn't leak?) Nope. (How come?) That is what you call technique. ( Ha ha) It's not a trick, but made it exact, and I guess it was fate. (Ha ha) (Doesn't the wood soak in the water?) Yeah, but the outside is dry. People often say that water leaks from wooden ice pail, so if you let it soak up the water and get it swollen, it might stop the leaking, but the ones that leaks doesn't stop leaking even if you let it soak up.

Make only one they said. (HaHa):

(How about the fish's bait box with a wide bottom?) Normally when you talk about the upside down OKE, that is the shape for it. Since the bottom is wider, the top is more closed up than the normal OKE. That is like the only thing that is made like that. (Does it sell?) Yeah, but customers who buys them wants it to be made so it will be suitable for them. So, instead of buying the displays, they say things like, make the height 2cm shorter or make the KEDASHI (lid)'s ratio 7 to 3 or make the whole a certain size, they want to order. I guess they like to keep the ones that are especially made for them. I tell them that it is easier to make more than one, so please ask friends, but they say makes only one. (Haha) (They must be courageous to make orders to you!) (Haha)

It's so expensive that they just admire the work and go home:

This is soap rack, this one is the shampoo rack. (The shampoo rack slides to the sides!) You can take it off, and move it. (Is it true that people who say the work is beautiful are more likely the ones that don't buy it?) Surprisingly that is kind of true. Since it's just so expensive. (So they don't buy?) Just admire and go. (Haha)

I ask them to rinse it with water quickly:

(How do you take care OKE?) For most OKE, I can say to quickly rinse it, not to soak it in, and after rinsing quickly, to natural dry out in the shades, dry it very will, that is the two points. (What is wrong with soaking?) Eventually, it will suck up water and the wood will get damaged faster. Wine coolers are made to be used like that so it's okay, but things we usually don't put water in, it will last longer if you don't soak it with water. (Soap?) Soap, you can use polishing powder, cleanser, and cream cleanser. (How bout detergent?) No we don't use them. Well, scrubbing brush, sponge is okay too, but what I recommend is HECHIMA (sponge cucumber). Polish the same direction as the grain, like this with cleanser on the sponge cucumber. (I remember doing this long time ago!) In the old days, ash, KAMADO's (oven) ash was used especially on parts that are copper. To make it shine, it was said that Kamado's ash was good.

Any parts can be repaired:

(Can repair?) Any parts can get repaired so after 10 or 20 years, can reshave, retighten the TAGA. Our OKE are made that way. (Our OHITSU was a thin TAGA!) Cut the part where the end of the TAGA joins in a hook shape… we call this SHINCHUU-ROUZUKE (copper and tin foil attached by melting)… this is the best way to attach them, but there is a way to just stack and melt it together. This way, it makes the joint part weak so it can stretch, or crack easily. If attached by SHINCHUU-ROUZUKE, it is attached in the best way. (If the TAGA is beautifully rounded, does that mean it has thickness?) Yes. If thin, it can't hold the wood's pressure, if thick the TAGA has the strength to tighten the wood. There is barely any OKE with the craftsman's signature. If the OKE has a signature, well, can distinguish that it is a pretty good quality.

Can't make it without good quality materials:

(What is the procedure to make the roundness of the OKE with the wood?) I will show it to you later, but we split the wood by the rounded hatchet to get the material. So, from the time to get the material, it is rounded. Now days, there is a machine to curve the wood round. (Split is with the hatchet?) This is a traditional way and this way, it can be bumpy, twisted, cracked, so it has to be a high quality wood. (How do you handle the material?) First, rinse it with water, then rinse it with water and dry it, rinse it and dry it, do this several times, then as last dry it. Approximately it takes 3 months. And at the very end, stack it all on the iron net and put it in a room called MURO to heat dry. After a day we assemble them. By rinsing with water and drying them takes the extra oil and scum out of the wood, also it stops the wood from warping. (What are the properties of SAWARA?) It is strong against water and acid, soft smell, grains are very fine so it doesn't warp as much, and it is easy to handle because it is very light. (What is the dissimilarity to HINOKI?) Lets see, well, HINOKI and SAWARA are in the same family. So, the properties are mostly the same, except that HINOKI has a stronger smell, and heavier compared to SAWARA. (Red wood?) Umm, I guess close to orange color. HINOKI is a light pink, more like yellow color...

Foreigner said "Using four hands!!":

(Joke as in using both hands and feet.) (Why is your father cutting that for?) Oh, that is gonna be HANDAI (OKE used for sushi rice) and he is cutting the bottom of the OKE to make it even. (It is amazing how he turn it with his feet!) (Father) Foreigner once said to me," You are using all for hands!) (Ha ha). (What does materials look like at first?) Like this board that is not broken yet. (Son) Just showed it to you right there, but shave the inside. (Father) Using this KANNA (shaving tool) to make it round. (How many times do you shave the wood?) Twice or so. (How do you determine the degrees of the outside curve?) Well, adjusting to the curve of the OKE passed down from several hundreds years ago. This is roughly shaved so it's not exact. (The TAGA surrounding it is not copper?) (Father) This is roughly shaved, I 'm gonna do it one more time. (Son) That TAGA is just a substitute used while pasting the glue and drying it, evening out the outside, then finish the inside, then the outside. After that replace the copper TAGA around it, tighten it, and push this board which is gonna be the base of the OKE, from the top until it reaches the bottom. (The last step is to place in the baseboard?) Yes. Place it at the very end, curve the uneven parts, and replace stakes to finish it. We place the base after tightening the TAGA. (Do you attach them by glue?) They are attached by glue, but held together more by the TAGA that is tightened around the OKE. The bottom part keeps them straight preventing them from becoming loose. (Would it fall apart if TAGA were removed?) Well, I wouldn't say fall apart.

15th is the FUKAGAWA festival:

(Mr.Katsumi, do you carry the OMIKOSHI (portable Shrine) ?) Umm , yeah. The 15th happened to be the big festival called FUKAGAWA festival. I was very busy with different things, since I was in the committee.