The price of gold products change every day:

.Nowadays, gold products are bought only by those who really like them. The gold products that are bought are Buddhist altar tools. Buddha statues are made by metal casting, but ours are mainly made by using metal boards. We make things like bells, candlesticks, and incense holders. These days, the demand towards gold products vary according to the price of gold. Since the price has been going lower and lower these past few months, the demand is in its best shape now. Also since it is the season of Obon (a Buddhist festival period) and Ohigan (also a Buddhist festival period held on equinoctial weeks) now, there have been quite a few of these types of orders. (Do the prices of merchandise change too, according to the market price?) The price is different every day. The customers are satisfied with it. (How about silver?) We have a few, but not much.

The price is at times half, or one third:

We used to sell many of these coffee cup sets. Now, every embassy and legation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan exclusively use this kind of set. We are the ones who supply them. So I think these kinds of products will sell outside of Japan. But we still don't sell our products to foreign countries. Actually, I'm not sure if they are marketable in Europe. We're not that confident if we can compete with their design. I do think it will be interesting if these products become common in other parts of the world. You don't usually find Japanese products in foreign countries. That's why so many foreigners come and buy them in Japan. (Are the products cheaper in Japan?) Well let's see, I would say it is about half or one third the price bought in Japan. (But everything else in Japan is so expensive. Why is there a difference?) They're setting the price too high. Things made by companies in foreign countries are simply very expensive. If you could use a machine to do part of the pressing and other procedures, by using a good machine and a good format, the merchandise would be cheap. But since there aren't any craftsmen who can make them, handmade products become expensive. (You're saying that they are expensive because they are handmade?) In the first place, the demand or should I say value towards silver products are far more than Japan. (There aren't as many craftsmen as there is in Japan?) Oh no. There are many craftsmen in Europe. Be it England or France. Just like real estates, the price escalates when it is given attention. In Japan, the merchandise don't circulate that much, so the price doesn't really move. On the other hand in foreign countries, since the merchandise circulate all the time, the price probably goes up with it. (Are silver products used daily?) In Europe, silvers are used in their everyday lives. In Japan, even though they are displayed in fashionable department stores, they are disliked because they are thought to turn black over the days. However in Europe, since they use it every day, the table ware don't have time to get black. Silverware don't turn black as long as you use it all the time. You see, they turn blackish if you store them somewhere without using them. That's why you don't see much silverware in Japanese households. I would say spoons at the most.

I started this job fairly later on in my life:

(Mr. Ishiguro, did you start making silver products?) No, no. It was my father who started the business. (Did it originally take place here?) No, it was at first in Urawa, Saitama. (So, when did you move here?) Oh, that would be more than 45 years ago. (Did you learn from your father?) Well, yes. I started this job fairly later on in my life, after I graduated from college. I was helping out a lot while from when I was still a student. So if I include that, I have a pretty long experience. I formally joined this company after I graduated college.

There are seven in Tokyo:

(What is this "Tokyo Silverware" that you have written on your name card?) It's a type of traditional craftwork. It has been designated by the country as traditional work. For instance, the famous Nishijin-ori (a traditional type of textile produced in Kyoto), and the Hakata-ningyou (a series of dolls made in Kyushu) are examples of some of the products that are at the same level as the Tokyo Silverware. (Is the process of production being regulated too?) Yes it is. The products that pass the examination receive a mark. There are about 130 products all together in Japan that have received the mark from the Minister of International Trade and Industry. There are only seven in Tokyo. People used to by our silverware since we used to live in traditional Japanese style with a tokonoma (Japanese alcove), a zashiki (Japanese parlor), and nagahibachi (Japanese firepan) and things of that sort. Nowadays, not many houses have tokonomas, or zashikis, so there aren't many places where they use traditional Japanese style silverware either. So, the Tokyo Silverware that I mentioned before could be said as one of the basic traditional techniques.

Gold products take double the manufacturing fee:

(Does the production process differ between gold and silver?) The procedure is mostly the same. You know, they're both metal, so they have similar qualities. But since the raw material is more expensive for gold, we get more careful when we handle them. But generally speaking, gold and silver are made through almost the same process. There are differences in the details though. That's why we charge double the manufacturing fee for gold products. So if we made the same product with gold and silver, the difference of interest would be more than double. However, as I mentioned earlier, not many people buy silverware, and when we do an exhibition of silverware craftsmen, we do it as Tokyo Silverware. We would have to display our work in these situations. We have some of our silver products sent to some places right now, but we don't need much stock. That would be different if people bought more silver, but since they don't, we don't need that much. When it comes to gold products, we wouldn't be able to hold stock, so we produce the merchandise after we take the order. I know that we ought to be able to live on with silver only, but unfortunately that's not how things work.

My son used to work for a computer related company:

(So you have some craftsmen working at your place?) Yes. Let's see, there are 5 people today at work. Well my son isn't here today, but he's at another place where there are many machines and other equipment. He's trying to look for something he can sell in a large amount through mail-order business. My son used to work for a computer related company, but all of a sudden he started saying that he wants to work with me. (Weren't you happy to hear that?) All of us are. The Japanese curtain shop, the Japanese bucket shop, and us. All of us have a son who graduated from college, and all of them came home to work with us. Right now in our shop, we have two young people working for us. They both have experience in other companies too, but since the organization was too large, they have only experienced part of manufacturing. They don't have the feeling of making something from scrap to the end, you know. So there's one who is trying hard to attain the techniques he can use with his own hands. (Isn't it tough to hire craftsmen today in this situation?) Actually, to be honest, yes. It is tough. It would be much better if I could do things all by myself. Things get so difficult when there are other people around. (You mean you have to teach them a lot of things?) I'd rather say it's tough to pay them than to teach them. Hahaha. In this economic depression, I have to keep my craftsmen working, and still have to come out with some profit. If I were doing all of this alone, I would just reduce the amount I save if I don't have enough interest. But right now, I don't have any more to reduce from. (Are you managing a corporate organization?) Yes. There are three disciples that used to work under my father. They're all fairly old, and suck up a lot of salary. They are purely craftsmen. The young two are probably going to go on their own in a few years. I wish they would set up their own business soon and start doing our support work. That's the ideal plan. I don't know what's wrong. Maybe our company is a very comfortable place to stay, but to be honest it's problem that they don't become independent and start their own businesses. The oldest man is 73 or 74 already. (Is it more interesting to produce things rather that be a normal business man?) We're in an age when even the famous large-scaled banks go bankrupt. We used to think that business men are better because of the security in the position. No one can look for that anymore. We have ups and downs. Craftsmen who have children including myself thought the typical business man type would be better on, and that's why we had our children go to school. For some reason, they all came back saying they want to do the family business.

You have to start when you're young to get good:

(Isn't it too late to start after graduating from college?) We have two young workers, and one of them came to our place right after he graduated from high school, the other after college. The one who joined us after high school is fast at obtaining skills. It's better if you start when you're young. Anyone can do pretty good with training, but in our business, but what really matters is the perfection of skills. It is necessary to develop the skills further, and to master it. We craftsmen used to make things that were ordered from customers. There would be customers who tell us what they want, and we would make the products according to the orders. That's how it used to be, but from now on, we will have to come up with new product ideas that will sell. When it comes to creating new things, the way of thinking, and of course the skills required will be top class. To be number one in the business, you need special skills. For that, you have to start when you 're young to get good. Our young craftsmen go through the ordinary manufacturing process everyday. But even through that, I see that little by little, they are developing talent of creating ideas of new products that will sell. However, the Japanese community still has a seniority system where the older ones are valued more than the young, so we can't just concentrate on the younger ones. They are unfortunate in a way.

We have to go a step forward:

(Do the craftsmen come up with the design?) In our factory, I come up with all of the designs. Just like in accessories and jewelry, we should have a independent designer who does the designing work. Because if we design it, we have a picture of manufacturing it in the first place. (Do you think of how easy it is to produce?) Well, I think of the product actually being sold. If there were totally different designers and manufacturers, there would be better products. When we think of design, we try to take the average, or the steady selling type of design. It's different if we have all the time in the world, or an especially unique idea, but we normally just can't go over the everyday framework. (Do people recognize that your products are made by you?) Of course they do. (Do you have a distinctive form?) Yes, in a way. (How about the people in the same business?) There are many of them. We all sell our products to the same wholesales firms, and we make the same kind of things. The way it works is the products that actually sell get more orders, if our products sell, people come to us for different types of shape too. It's not that complicated, but we have to go a step forward in order to lead this kind of business with a lot of people engaged. I'm pretty happy with my present position, by as for my son, he would have to go over my place. He can't just imitate what I'm doing, so that's why he's trying all the new things.

The point is how light and thin you make them:

It's difficult for ordinary people to understand our business. There are some parts that take a lot of time and care to make, but doesn't appear clearly in our products. That means that some customers might look at our products and think that it was easily made by casting. But actually it's made from one single piece of board, and all the ornaments have been hand carved. For this to be understood, we will have to explain to them how much time and trouble it takes to make them. But we can't all of a sudden go up to a customer who is looking at our products in a shop and start explaining to them the process, so all we can do is do exhibitions at craftsmen expositions and show them how it is done. The most important parts aren't being understood correctly. . . (Are precious metal goods judged by their weight and not their skills?) Yes, they sure are. That's why people think that the heavier the product is, the more expensive it is. But we are trying to make our products lighter, and thinner. You can increase the weight as much as you want, it's easy to do that. But we're going the other way. They're tools, and tools should be light to be better to use.

Some young people spend 30,000 or 40,000 yen to purchase silver products:

(Are most of the customers old people?) Basically yes. These things are bought mainly buy the elderly. But these days, silver accessories are popular and sell pretty much. But most of them are imported accessory from foreign countries. They have a clever commercial technique. They make limited editions of design. For instance they say they will only make two hundred of the same kind of design, and have numbers carved on each one of them. They only make little amounts at a time. Then even if the products, let it be a ring or a necklace, is worth 10,000 yen made by us, young people spend 30,000 or 40,000 yen to purchase them. This is only for the imported accessories. (Why don't you try this limited sales?) Everyone is doing it already. They have the mail-order programs on TV where they say they only produce 20 of the same kind, but we get suspicious if they are really only making 20. Okay, they say they will only sell it to the first 50 people who order, but we presume they will sell to the first hundred. I really think that's what is going on. We tried mail-ordering once, and we said we would only sell 30. Obviously, if there are more orders, we make and sell more. There would be added value only when the customers can trust that there are only a limited amount sold.

"Arare" is our specialty:

(How do you mat the surface of the metal?) We blow tiny sand to it. Metal looses its luster when it is damaged. So we blow tiny sand to the lusting surface of metal and create this matted surface. We call it "Nashiji (Pear Surface)." The surface work is the most difficult part of the process. Forming the shape of the whole product isn't that hard to do, but the product differs according to the details of the surface design. We also hit the surface with a special hammer that has a pattern on its head. The pattern turns up on the surface of the metal. (What about the little bumps?) We call them "Arare." Every single one of those bumps are pushed in with a hammer. (From the back?) No, we push them in from the surface. Using a hammer that is pushed out on the back, and caved in on the top, we make each one of the dots. "Arare" is our specialty. I think there is another place where they make them, but that's about it. Comparing their products and ours, we have better quality "Arare," so most of the orders come to us.

Gold ions change the taste of sake:

When you drink sake with guinomis and ochokos (both traditional Japanese cups used when drinking sake) made of pure gold, you recognize that gold ions change the taste of sake. That doesn't occur that much with silver. The gold plated ones are no good. It has to be pure gold. Gold and silver give out a lot of ions. Silver ions have strong sterilizing effects. I have a friend who lives near the hot springs of Ikaho. In his hotel, he makes the hot water circulate since there isn't enough water and uses silver plates to kill the mold fungus. He does that to that breeds. When it comes to gold, you don't even have to do anything to make the ions come out. So you should rather drink from gold guinomis than drink sake with gold flakes in them. (Do you drink out of gold guinomis, Mr. Ishiguro?) As a matter of fact, no. Haha.

I want to keep working when I am 80:

There are actually some people who still work when they are 80. This work doesn't require that much strength. I won't make any more of the big kinds of products, but I can still make the little ones. I can hit the metal with the small hammer if the product is small. The speed will decrease, and so will other things, but I can continue this job until I am pretty old. If I were a business man working for a company, I would have to think of what to do after I retire when I come close to the age of 60. It would be better if I had some kind of skills so I can work somewhere, but that's not usual. As for me, I don't have to worry about my retirement, but I won't have a job if the business conditions aren't good. This happens a lot in traditional craftwork manufacturing. They are luxurious products that aren't needed for everyday life. Even if the economic cycle recovers, it takes time for us to come back.

The families that use silver products have a high status:

(Are silver products luxurious products?) Well, considering the price, they are thought to be so. The families that use silverware for daily lives have a high status. Gold products have a yet different meaning. You know, the meaning of purchase. But the ones who purchase silverware, use them. That is if it isn't for a present. In that respect, there aren't many families who use silverware. We somehow keep our business going by selling gold products.

Your specialty is silverware?:

Of course so! Nowadays, gold is getting so cheap, but this isn't going to last long. Right now, we're just selling more gold by chance, but we're not going to be able to keep selling gold for the rest of our lives. As I mentioned earlier, the materials for gold products are too expensive. We can't hold stocks, but we have to be quick on the orders. We're always being chased in making gold products. Thinking of that, I think silver is the better way.

There are some orders that can only be handled by us:

Many of the gold products are ordered by people related to religion. This miniature gold house was the birth house of the founder of a certain religion. Some of the believers dedicated a house five times bigger than this for the birthday of the founder. The places that have money today, have something to do with religion. Our customers are religious groups too. They come a couple of times a year for orders. We also make pretty large-scaled things too. We made bathtubs of gold and silver. It was for the Lucky Healthy Land in Komaki. There is a huge dome where there are six bathtubs in it, and the one in the middle is placed on a huge marble stage, and surrounded with glass boards. They both charge money to get inside, and to take photographs. The men's is pure gold, and the women's is pure silver. They fit all sorts of jewelry around the silver bathtub to charge the same fee as the gold one. I think it was over 15 years ago. We have several workers so we can do the fairly large-scaled projects. If there were only one or two people who work, you wouldn't be able to handle the kind of orders. There are some orders that can only be handled by us. There are one or two of these orders each year. They're pretty interesting to work on, because they're different from the ordinary work. Generally speaking, it isn't widely known that traditional craftsmen including myself, do more than just the ordinary work. People are surprised when they find out that we do all kinds of work. Now in the world with all the information flying around, I think it's best to commercialize using the media. (What else do you do?) We also handle work for the Imperial Family. It wasn't directly ordered to us, but we have done some business.

There isn't anything poisonous with this:

You know how silver turns black over the years if you don't use them? Bad stuff stick to silver and make it look black. If you leave the silverware in places like this, the silver reacts to some poisons. Sulfur content especially comes onto the silver. So in Japan, we have a custom of tasting the food before it is served to the guest. It is called dokumi ,poison check. Outside of Japan, they don't have this kind of custom. Using silverware shows that there isn't anything wrong with the food. Then using silver shows the high status, because it means that the owner of the silverware has a maid who shines the silver so it doesn't turn black. And then in places like England, they don't change the design of silverware for years so even if someone lost one of the silverware their grandparents used to use, they would be able to find the same kind and keep the set perfect. Silverware can be used for a long time, and to know that there will always be a same set provides the user a sort of trust and security. You can hand it down generation to generation. It doesn't go the same way in Japan. People think the new things are always better. The designs change all the time, and there isn't a particular design that stays for years. (Is the value of silverware in when they are handed down through generations, and not when they are bought by someone who got rich enough to afford it?) Well, in a way, that's right. There was once a time when the customer claimed to me that I fixed a scratch. I was asked to repair his silverware set, and did so. I cleaned it all up and returned them to the client. Then he came back saying it was an important scratch that his grandson had made in some incident.