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They used to call those who make this "BENI" "BENI SHO".
(Has the name BENI SHO existed from way back?) They used to call those who make this "BENI" "BENI SHO". It was like a job title. Today, I believe "BENI SHO" is considered as a ladder in practice. In the old days, the word "BENI SHO" also appeared in posters. (Old days? How old?) Not too long ago, but about 30 years ago. (Where is the cradle land of this "BENI (rouge) " ? Originally, a person who used to do dyeing in Kyoto was making the "BENI (rouge) ". I understand that our founder, Hanemon Sawada, learned the technique from a craftsman in Kyoto and started to make it in Edo. Well, to put it simply and historically, it was originally descended from China in ancient times and throughout the development of dyeing works in Kyoto, rouge was created, and was transferred to Edo.
And here comes out technique of essentializing such small amount of red pigment.
(What is the ingredient of "BENI (rouge) "?) "BENI BANA" (Safflower) . We make this "KOMACHI BENI" out of "BENI MOCHI" made in Yamagata prefecture. (Made mainly from BENI BANA (safflower) ? Not mainly, but ALL from BENI BANA (safflower) . 100% pure red pigment taken from BENI BANA (safflower) is called "HON BENI". Our "BENI (rouge) -KOMACHI BENI" is made from this "HON BENI". The best color can be obtained by using "BENI MOCHI" of Yamagata. (What is "BENI MOCHI"?) WellÉ I believe it is called "HANA MOCHI" in Yamagata, but we call it "BENI MOCHI". We grind the flower petals of BENI BANA (safflower) to the level that their shapes are retained, and ferment. Then, we make small dumplings and smash with hands, to make it look like a rice cake. BENI MOCHI is the sun-drying version of this rice cake. Using this as our ingredient, we abstract HON BENI from here. You mean you first make something like MOCHI (rice cake) and reuse it after melting it?) Well, not exactly by meltingÉ Simply saying, BENI MOCHI is the dried version of flower petals. Therefore, when soaked in water and reconstituted, it turns back to the flower petals. We abstract only the red pigment from these flower petals and make HON BENI but BENI BANA (safflower) is primarily made by yellow pigment, and the red pigment constitutes only a few percent. And here comes out technique of essentializing such small amount of red pigment. As a matter of fact, the making of HON BENI has been secret, which our successive BENI SHOs (BENI masters) have transmitted only orally.
As an ingredient for "KOMACHI BENI", the color taken from BENI MOCHI of Yamagata is much more beautiful.
(I hear traditional craftsmen find it hard to secure their materials.) Today, people of the Preservation Association are working hard to secure the ingredients today, so we make our current purchases from them. Our annual business is supported by what we purchase from them every year. There is also a different BENI BANA (safflower) called RAN KA, which comes from China, and we use it for "GORYOBENI" (edible dye) . (Is there a difference?) As an ingredient for "KOMACHI BENI", the color taken from BENI MOCHI of Yamagata is much more beautiful. As a result of my research, I came to conclude that BENI MOCHI of Yamagata is better, so we give priority. KOMACHI BENI is using 100% BENI MOCHI.
You may not always get it right even if you've seen it or already know how to do it.
(Since when have you been involved in this business?) This is one of our company's businesses. When I first entered the company, I was not in this business department, but it so happened that I took over my senior workerÕs job. (You mean you started working in ISEHAN, and the type of job changed in the mid-course?) That's right. This has been ISEHAN's traditional business, so it is the company policy to succeed it at all times. I believe I was chosen to take this task. (Your sense received recognition?) I hope so. (laugh) (So, how long have you been in this business?) 9 years after taking over. In earlier days, it was like an apprentice system, so I was put in charge of only a part of this business by my senior worker and that was all for a while. However, today, it is done in an organization of the company, so I need to teach and educate the whole group at the same time, but we can proceed in a much faster speed today than before. And I learn how to teach more effectively. In former times, it was like "go and steal the technique", but in reality, you need to actually do it yourself because it is mostly the issue of having good sense. You may not always get it right even if you've seen it or already know how to do it. Creation of BENI and painting of BENI both require trained technique and good sense of craftsmen. (Is making of BENI more difficult than painting it in the cups?) Well, not completely. Since the procedures are mostly set, you can get a reasonable level of product by following these procedures, but creation of BENI and painting of BENI both require trained technique and good sense of craftsmen. We believe that our dedication in creation and continuance of such precious product is very important. Without this system, creation of HON BENI would have probably disappeared at the beginning of the Showa era. There was a strong dedication of our business owner (Kamenosuke Sawada) who thought this business must be maintained some way. Thanks to him, he took over from a former craftsman this technology during wartime that was almost dying and inherited it throughout the years, we can continue to make it as it is. Compared to the old days, consumption of "KOMACHI BENI" has decreased. Today, western-type rouge is more commonly used, so it must have been very hard to bring down the Japanese rouge. 
"BENI (rouge) " is expensive; so I think there are more MAIKOs that use western type rouge.
(Who uses "KOMACHI BENI" today?) There are some who have been using it for a long time. Also, I believe there are probably many who use it out of curiosity because it's different. Maybe most of the users are such people. And there are some who buy it as a souvenir. Also, I think it is tested by those who find that western-type of rouge disagrees with their lips. (How about MAIKO of Kyoto?) "BENI (rouge) " is expensive; so I think there are more MAIKOs that use western type rouge. But maybe, they use it for a special occasion. 
But I believe those customers who buy it are convinced with the worth of "BENI (rouge) ".
(I see that there are different shapes for "BENI ZARA" (cups/plates for BENI) . Is this the SAKE CUP type?) Yes. "Painting of BENI" (Who would think this is BENI?) This is the process of spreading BENI evenly. (It seems easy to say so, but hard to make it even.)
We do it with a wooden pallet. After spreading with a brush it is still uneven, so we spread it with this pallet. (When applying it on lips, you use with a wet paintbrush, correct? Well, how many times can you apply it?) It depends on how much one uses, but 30-40 times is a rough guide. (Is this for lips?) Yes. It's lip rouge. (How about for cheeks or eyebrows?) Back in Edo era, they used to apply on cheeks and eyebrows too. You can do so even today, but our company sells it as lip rouge. (How about its price? Does it differ from western type rouge?) I believe there are western types at this price level, but honestly speaking this is quite expensive, and people may hesitate to buy. But I believe those customers who buy it are convinced with the worth of "BENI (rouge) ".
We worked hard to make something that is suitable for these cups.
(How many Sake Cups with BENI are prepared in a day?) Maximum around 80, because it's expensive and needs special cautiousness in painting it one-by-one. After painting, we make an inspection and we re-paint those that are considered no-good.
(When you say re-paint, you mean you destroy it?) We wash it (BENI) all away. Once it becomes dry, we cannot paint over it any more. It's costly, but we need to do it from scratch. (How does this red BENI turn green or iridescent?) The color changes as it dries. (What color is "BENI MOCHI"?) Red. (So, you mean it turns iridescent for the first time at this stage?) That's right. 
(Does this color change mean there is some kind of chemical reaction?) Well, that's our technique and company secret as well. The moment you make this HON BENI, it is this color, a little like goldÉ we call it iridescent color. I believe other companies produce red ones with gold luster. (Since the color differs from others, does it mean the production method is different?) Not really. I think it is mostly the same. But the process taken after may be different. Well, that is our company secretÉ But it's not adding something separately. In reality, there is a difference in visionÉ the color in workshop, outside in the light, under the fluorescent lamp. So even if you think it's beautiful here, you may be surprised to see such a different color outside. This is the characteristic and fascination of iridescent color. (This sake cup is quite elaborate.) We now use Arita ware (sake cups) for "TOKIIRO" series. We worked hard to make something that is suitable for these cups. (Is this specially ordered?) Yes. We are also planning to sell BENI with Genemon's sake cups next year (2005) . (Wow, that's major!) Of course, we will work hard not to miss out.
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